Curse

Zuranthium · Nov 14, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

All these discrepencies are bugging me. *scream*

We need like a definitive research study. *calls the scientists*

Kabale · Nov 14, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Not like losing the 10E from ZB is a big deal anyway, what with Energizing Finale around...

BL seems kinda pointless when used with a Divert Hexes Monk, IMO.

As Ensign pointed out, ZB is awesome in Arenas.

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 14, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Hmm I was running a bonder monk with zealous and some other stuff, in RA during the double faction weekend, worked pretty well IMO.

Anyway, why not have ZB replace WoH, and make a RC prot carrying GoH, and a ZB infuse monk, 2x extinguish/RoF/SoA with infuse+WoH+RC or bad idea?

Drewfense · Nov 14, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

BL seems kinda pointless when used with a Divert Hexes Monk, IMO.

As Ensign pointed out, ZB is awesome in Arenas.

Yea ZB is really good in smaller play. I had a lot of fun with it in AB.

The usefulness of a BL as hex removal is reduced playing with a divert, but the spell has always been marginal hex removal (although I always seem to be the only one to think that lol...). The reason you go with BL is the flexibility. If you need to split a monk, BL is pretty much the best solo monk out there atm so it is nice to have in the party.

Furthermore, it gets choppy trying to think of a different elite to bring. ZB is a legitimate prospect, but I think the consensus is that BL is better. RC is pretty bad in the american meta. I haven't seen a team with stacked conditions for awhile. Heal...pass. A low spec Light of Deliverance maybe, but it still isn't that awe inspiring.

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 14, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Martyr instead of RC.

Byron · Nov 14, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

Martyr instead of RC.

Martyr seems like a solid option where the meta is heavily based on conditions. When NR/tranq was heavy, I'm surprized we didn't see more martyr. But, with the meta being damage heavy in both elemental (ie, searing flames) and melee (thumpers, dervishes) categories, taking martyr over RC really reduces the healing power of that monk.

On a secondary monk it isn't even too appealing with draw conditions and extinguish around. An n/mo, e/mo, or whatever/mo with draw can effectively become condition control, since that character can draw conditions at least as fast as the enemy can apply them. In fact, I would suggest this tactic if the enemy's offense is reliant upon condition pressure. For disease, you have extinguish, which is more or less standard in 8v8 play.

Drewfense · Nov 14, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

But, with the meta being damage heavy in both elemental (ie, searing flames) and melee (thumpers, dervishes) categories, taking martyr over RC really reduces the healing power of that monk.

So what is the point of bringing RC? If there are not heavy condition stacks, RC is a waste of an elite. RC = Mend Condi when removing single burning, deep wound, or disease. The thread is kinda running in circles on monk elite discussion...but ZB would be better than RC in the current meta that is pressure and single conditions.

I think RC is a little over hyped after getting so much action in 8v8 tombs. In tombs, every other match was IWAY/VIMWAY, NR/Tranq, or had a trapper of some sort. In such situations, RC is godly. You really don't see stacked condtions much in GvGs. The fighting is much more open and there are no relic runs, limiting the effectiveness of trappers. If there are heavy conditions, it is normally something like Crip Shot + Mel + Taint. Those styles of builds tend to rotate in and out whenever there is a new chapter or skill update (imo people lean on rangers and heavy conditions whenever a new meta has yet to form) and at those times an RC is worth taking. Pretty much all other times, it is a waste of elite.

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 14, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

You should take a look in HA builds, my try to form a new solid monk backline. And yes i had noted there that mend condition=RC, with single conds. Martyr is to counter SF together with extinguish.

Only martyr is on another monk, dividing the surge of energy required to keep your team alive vs SF.

I Brother Bloood I · Nov 14, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Shatter Enchantment and its ilk often accompany a spike.

Yes i know but this isnt only gvg we're in the general pvp area atm. U wont find that to much in ha, ta, ra, and ab. (But u will find) Its still good for safety emasures if ur gonna wait for them to run down before healing. Really i think u should just do normal healing while waiting for someone to get below 50% but sometimes ur lazy and put up prot spirit and let it role.

Seamus Finn · Nov 14, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Zealous Benediction is an awesome arena elite. The damage is much more controllable in that environment. I don't know that it's that hot in 8-man, where things are a lot more fast paced and it's much more difficult to get it to trigger.

Peace,
-CxE

I will unequivicably agree with this. In 4v4 ZB can be godly. I am not ashamed to say I ran a Mo/D godmode ZB monk and owned face! Again though, this is usually a 4v4 situation so I can't brag that much. Also, relying on broken Paragon skills that are indefiantely going to be nerfed does not somehow make ZB a good elite, just viable do to all the Nightfall crazyness going on.

To the people hating on RC, I think it's never a horrible elite to bring jsut because almost everyone brings conditions to their builds that are vital to it working out(cripples, blinds, and DEEP WOUNDS). I can justify bringing RC just for teh reason that I will ALWAYS get rid of that deep wound no matter if it covered or not and my warriors will still rage in your face(unless there are ice snares, but thats the divert's job). THats 100 extra points of healing. Still not a favorite elite, but I think its more versatile than people give it credit for.

skillsbas8 · Nov 14, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Going away from monks, I was wondering about decapitate. It hasn't been discussed very much and I still have mixed opinions about it. What do you guys think of it?

TheOneMephisto · Nov 14, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillsbas8

Going away from monks, I was wondering about decapitate. It hasn't been discussed very much and I still have mixed opinions about it. What do you guys think of it?

Decapitate is obviously good in a pure adrenalspike build, however, it does take some micromanagement and is a bit harder to use. It's much less versatile, but better at what it's designed to do. Also, exe->crit chop->prot strike->decapitate is basically a guaranteed kill in RA.

I personally also think that decapitate is very good in a pressure build. Even though it obviously does less pressure than eviscerate just because of its downsides, the ability to solo-kill a 50% target in literally 1 hit can put a lot of mental pressure on monks on top of the pressure that your team is putting on them.

Patccmoi · Nov 15, 2006, 01:08 AM // 01:08

If you're going to bring RC and Mending Touch though, wouldn't you be better carrying Draw Condition + Mending Touch and use ZB as elite? This way at least you have a big heal that isn't reliant on them stacking conditions, draw is faster to use to get rid of conditions on others, and if you have 2+ conditions on you Mending Touch is pretty much a Healing Touch.

I Brother Bloood I · Nov 15, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

If you're going to bring RC and Mending Touch though, wouldn't you be better carrying Draw Condition + Mending Touch and use ZB as elite? This way at least you have a big heal that isn't reliant on them stacking conditions, draw is faster to use to get rid of conditions on others, and if you have 2+ conditions on you Mending Touch is pretty much a Healing Touch.

What if u draw daze and its covered by other conditions.

Zui · Nov 15, 2006, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Brother Bloood I

What if u draw daze and its covered by other conditions.

Umm, why would you draw Dazed? It has one of the most easily visable animations in the game...

Also, if it gets covered, that means it was on the top of the condition stack, or near there...

Seamus Finn · Nov 15, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

If you're going to bring RC and Mending Touch though, wouldn't you be better carrying Draw Condition + Mending Touch and use ZB as elite? This way at least you have a big heal that isn't reliant on them stacking conditions, draw is faster to use to get rid of conditions on others, and if you have 2+ conditions on you Mending Touch is pretty much a Healing Touch.

Not a terrible idea, although I can't be sure that ZB is Better than Gift of Health, which it would be replacing. You lose the self heal form ZB, but like you said, draw and mending touch is a nice self heal anyhow.

Kabale · Nov 15, 2006, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

If you're going to bring RC and Mending Touch though, wouldn't you be better carrying Draw Condition + Mending Touch and use ZB as elite? This way at least you have a big heal that isn't reliant on them stacking conditions, draw is faster to use to get rid of conditions on others, and if you have 2+ conditions on you Mending Touch is pretty much a Healing Touch.

My RA build atm is:

Prot spirit
Rof
Guardian
Draw Conditions
Mending Touch
Zealous Benediction
Holy Veil
Balanced Stance

A lot of fun to play, but as already stated, Daze hurts. It's pretty much the only thing that breaks this build though! It's been a while since I've played it, but I'm starting to get keen on dropping guardian for shield of absorption...

Back on topic, "Incoming!" on a Monk is not a bad idea at all, I'm very tempted to try it.

About people saying bringing an elite on a Monk that is not used often is not a good idea, I run Divert and have only had to use it every other game, but eventually you'll come across a hex build ([EW]) and not give a damn

Drewfense · Nov 15, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

<3 Balanced Stance

Incoming works on a monk, because on a monk a 1 second duration is enough o.O

Yea I think Divert versus RC is an unfair comparison (what people often due when they argue the conditionality of it). RC is nice versus heavy conditions, Divert rapes hexes.

JR · Nov 15, 2006, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

If you're going to bring RC and Mending Touch though, wouldn't you be better carrying Draw Condition + Mending Touch and use ZB as elite? This way at least you have a big heal that isn't reliant on them stacking conditions, draw is faster to use to get rid of conditions on others, and if you have 2+ conditions on you Mending Touch is pretty much a Healing Touch.

Lose the efficiecy of RC and draw conditions like Cripple, Dazed and Deep Wound that you really do not want on a Monk? Ok you can watch for animations but that is not always easy in a hectic match. Not to mention Draw is fairly bad against Disease as it can keep on spreading from you.

Bankai · Nov 15, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Draw conditions+mending touch is retarded on a monk anyway IMO.